In a message dated
9/24/2003 8:45:20 PM Central America Standard Tim, firstname.lastname@example.org
Date: 9/24/2003 8:45:20 PM Central America Standard Tim
Sent from the Internet
Would you please wake up and smell the coffee, not everything that goes on
in the church has to do with Patty.
>> Not since I filed the lawsuit, you are right. But when I filed
the lawsuit last year everything was Patty and more than one person will tell
you that every time Joe was asked a question, he had to ask Patty. You are
right, after I pushed and pushed and pushed, the Administrative Commission was
brought in and the power of Patty was reduced. I will tell you that when
Joe leaves, hopefully early next year, then there will be another major change
for the better. The Administrative Commission knows that it cannot
continue to spend more than the church takes in. It knows that the problem
there is Joe and that he cannot continue to be paid $65,000 for doing nothing.
There will be some additional healing as the church is forced to come together
to find a new preacher.
You say DR.JOE gives her control but yet
seem to do the same by saying she runs everything,there are people in the
church that are perfectly capable of making decisions for themselves.
Patty does not run everything anymore. There are a lot of people capable
of making a decision in the church but none except my mother were willing to
stand up to Patty. Even now, mostly I think due to age, the majority of
the congregation knows that things are not right but they do not have the energy
to fight. If you look, you will see that the battle is between those who
are around fifty and those who are around 75 years old. And those who are
fifty have the energy to bully the seniors.
your information Patty had nothing to do with the youth group,and it's
funny how you always talk about peace and togetherness but when it comes to
helping these teens your against it. WHY?
>> Because it was not put before the congregation for a vote.
Because 50 troubled teens with access to the entire church is not smart.
You know once you are in the educational building, you have access to the whole
church? Also are you aware that there was apparently already an incident
where one of these kids cut himself on the coke machine and the church is going
to have to use its insurance to pay. It is a matter of liability.
Who investigated this guy who is running this program? Where is he getting
the money to do this work? Can you answer any of this? No you cannot
because that would take too much effort to get past all the secrecy. And
when you say Patty had nothing to do with this, I guess you mean that Stephanie
Potts who headed this is not Patty's daughter.
>> I guess the main objection is that these kids have access to the entire
church and last I heard there was a form that the senior members had to fill out
to be able to go anywhere in the church. How do you give this access to
these kids and restrict access to the people who are paying the bill?
this is such a bad idea then tell me why one of your strongest supporters
spent nearly 2 hours with the kids several weeks ago and said they thought
it was good thing that was happening there. Why is everything positive that
people try and do around the church you try and find something wrong with
>> I am only against major changes that are not discussed in the session
and not presented to the congregation who pays the bills. This is just
like the Independence Heights Project. It was all done in secret.
Why? Why? Why? The answer is that things are done in secret because they
are a bad idea and cannot pass the vote of the congregation. Last time I
looked this was America and democracy reigned. Yet at Heights Church there
are a few people who are dictating things. And these people do not even
have the sense to know that you cannot spend $10,000 per month more than you
take in and survive in the long run.
>> So my question is why did the congregation not get to vote on the youth
program? Further and more to the point, why isn't Delgatto heading up a youth
program of his own. And tell me how much time is Delgatto spending with
these kids? Oh I guess we need to pay him another $30,000 to do this work.
can not find it in your heart to actually accept that some of us really
care about this church and really want to see it grow and last another 100
>> I have a hard time understanding how people who want to see the church
last 100 years accept the fact that the church is spending $10,000 per month
more than it takes in and accept the fact that the preacher is lazy and corrupt
and a liar.
And don't say I don't know what I'm talking about because I truly am
aware of what I say and feel. There has been talk among many members and we
are beginning to heal weather you want to see that or not.
>> Yes the church has begun to heal slowly. But that is only because
through my efforts Patty has been throttled back.
>> Do you remember Patty being the first person to destroy the church
memorials. Do you remember that it was Patty's friend Diane Feiler McGehee
who was called upon to be the church's attorney and yet at the same time Patty
who signed the contract with Ms. Feiler has refused to produce that contract.
Do you realize that Patty was behind the removal of Beverly and Mary and the
installation of another one of her friends Gail.
>> You have not heard the tape where Walter Ellis says that he was not
going to remove the Pentagram from the side of the church. What was that
The families you
talk about are wonderful people and great assests to our church and we do not
believe the lies you say about them.
>> You know, you people keep talking about the lies I tell yet not a
single person has specically stated exactly what lies you are talking about.
What are these lies? Please tell me. I think I can prove everything that I
have ever said and as far as I know, the few times that I have misstated
something, I have withdrawn it. So tell me what are the lies you people
are talking about? The truth is that you are just like a parrot repeating
things that you know nothing about.
please don't waist your time and try to convince us because it's not
working Mr. Worldpeace.
>> I do not know what you are talking about. What is going on in the
church is because of my presence. I have given control back to the
congregation. Patty's power is reduced. Even though it is mostly a
lie, the Second interim report did give a statement of how much money is
available in the church. Because of the lawsuit, the money is protected
now where it was not before. Because I got the Probate papers that showed
the church got $900,000, the Administrative Commission could not ignore it or
lie about it. Delgatto is being watched closely by the Administrative
Commission. And slowly the church is going back to being run in a
democratic as opposed to an autocratic manner. Coming soon is a balancing
of the budget and a removal of Joe as minister. The lawsuit has done all
of this. In time, the lies of the IHP and the missing assets will also
come to light. It is just going to take some more efforts in the court.
>> And lastly, very soon the membership will have to be opened in the
church and when that happens things will really begin to change.
>> As far as Patty Ellis goes, she will eventually leave. She will
never get control of the new minister like she has Joe. But the thing that
bothers me the most is the tape of Walter Ellis saying that he will not remove
the Pentagram from the church. I can't get that out of my mind. Add
to that the fact that he was one of the incorporators of the corrupt Independent
Heights, Inc and got out as soon as the lawsuit was filed. You have some very
important questions that need to be asked and answered.
>> In time all things will heal over. I have done nothing at the
church except focus on the corruption and the fact that the church assets were
being squandered. In the long run, you will see just how bad things were.
But you do not have my perspective now and I cannot reveal all that I know.
But in time, all the truth will come out.
>> You see the church like everything else must be cared for vigilantly.
The church was being neglected by the congregation and that allowed Joe and
Patty to run free. Joe Delgatto has divided the church. He did not
even go to the last SNAPS event which had 60 seniors attend. Why is that?
Are you going to tell me Joe is not a problem? Are you going to tell me Joe is
not a liar when he admitted it in court regarding the IHP?
>> Stay tuned. You do what you like. But in the meantime I
will keep the pressure on and directly or indirectly due to my efforts and those
who support me, the church will be put back on track and it will survive another
hundred years. The way it was going even the Administrative Commission
admitted it was going broke. Read the second interim report.
How can we manifest peace on
earth if we do not include everyone (all races, all nations, all religions, both
sexes) in our vision of Peace?
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