message dated 8/27/03 3:46:25 PM Central Daylight Time, email@example.com
<< Subj: Worldpeace
Date: 8/27/03 3:46:25 PM Central Daylight Time
From: firstname.lastname@example.org (Amy Grable)
I have somehow managed to read all of your postings on your website recently and
I am completely blown away. I can not believe some of the horrible things
you have said about my family. I did however find that a few of the
stories you have posted on your website are not the whole complete story.....is
that a coincidence or just a slight oversight?
> There is a discussion going on in which I am trying to bleed off some of
the tension and misconceptions that have gone on for over a year. Delgatto
is powerless to solve the tension. In fact he goes out of his way to increase
the tension. The Administrative Commission has done nothing in the last
seven months but push the Independence Heights Project. Are you
going to deny this?
> On the other hand, I had some informal congregational meetings last year to
which everyone was invited. Your family among others who were with you
refused to participate. I am an attorney and I know that problems between
people and groups cannot be solved without an open discussion. This is
something that your family along with Delgatto and the Ellis's have done
everything possible to prevent.
> What is going on with the web site is a conversation. Yes and
some things have been resolved as a result. Some of the tension has been
decreased because there is finally some communication. And as much as you
do not like what I have said, I have posted everything your side has written.
Your refusal to participate in the open conversation is the reason little has
been resolved in the last eighteen months.
I can not think of one bad thing that my Mom has done to you, your
mother, any member of your family or any member of your supporters for that
matter and you have begun to bash her along with my Dad, brother in law and now
my sister as well as call my whole family "low rent brawlers".
> Blanco tried to start a fight with me in the sanctuary last year without
even knowing me. He has tried to fight on one other occasion.
He made a threat to my mother that he knew where she lived. He has called
her a "bitch". He nearly put out Irma's eye in the sanctuary.
Amelia tried to knock my wife down in front of the education building last year
(By the way no one has denied this). And last month your father tried to
start a fight with me in the Fellowship Hall. This is why I have stated
that your family are "low rent brawlers"
I would just like to make a quick point........you have asked the ghost writer
why no one has ever made an attempt to talk to your "angelic wife" Kay
or your assistant LeAnne.......well I would like to ask you have you ever tried
to talk or get to know anyone in my family...........I can answer that the
answer is NO.
> Well you are wrong. Your family penned me in the fews last April and
tried to start a fight in the sanctuary. We had open congregational
meetings to which you all were invited but refused to participate. I am
not stupid. Your family made it perfectly clear that I was your enemy.
The only thing that has really bothered me was when Amelia deliberately ran into
my wife. She passed my mother and Vernon and me and ran right into Kay
when she was carrying one of your nieces. Even still my wife gave her a
graduation token which I understand she threw in the garbage. Tell me is
this the kind of behavior that encourages people to talk to members of your
I have never once seen you talk to
anyone in my family.
> April 2002 in the sanctuary, I tried.
How can you sit and say such horrible things about us and you know
absolutely nothing about us. Low rent brawlers??
> See above.
Mr. Worldpeace you have some nerve. If you knew anything about any
of us you would know that none of us would do anything to intensionally harm
this church or any of it's members.
> Wrong. See above. When an 17 year old female tries to knock
down a 50 year old female, it shows what kind of upbringing the child has had.
If you took the time to talk to some of the members you would know that
we are a well liked and greatly welcomed family of this church.
> I have and you are wrong. Your family does not go to SNAPS.
Will they be at the spaghetti dinner next Saturday night. Your family and
Patty Ellis and a few others do not mix with the senior members of the church.
None of you have attended the quilt making for abused children.
You know Mr. Worldpeace there are two sides to every story.........you
have so many "so and so said that_ _ _ _" but you have failed to get
the other side of the story.
> I have posted everything that you people have sent to me. I have
never not posted your side of the story.
Just let me get this out of the way real quick .....I am the sister in law that
John Blanco was staying with and I can promise you and guarantee you that
there is no paint in my house that ever belonged to the church.
Please Mr. Worldpeace give me some credit here I am a working women and I
can afford paint for my house if I ever needed it.
As for John he is my
brother in law and I love him dearly and the things you say about him are
just plain cruel. Mr. Worldpeace we all know John is a big man it is no
late breaking news and why you feel the need to pick at that "MR.
WORLDPEACE" is beyond me.
> I do not recall picking at his weight problem. You will have to show
me where I did that; if that is what you are talking about.
This is something a child in elementary would do not a grown man.
> Tell me specifically what you are talking about.
Now as for the whole Irma Jenke and John Blanco "assault"
situation.....you failed to tell everyone
> I was not there. I posted what I was told. I have been willing
to post any denials or rebuttals.
that Irma never tried to hand those papers to my sister Kris(Session member) she
insisted on trying to give them to John(Non-Session member) he told her several
times he did not want them or need them since he is not a session member but she
shoved them into his hands so he threw them.
> Kris is on the session and Irma who is also on the session was giving her
those documents because she was on the session. Kris should have just
taken them. Is this how your loving and friendly and open family deals
with their responsibilities. If Kris did not want the responsibilities of
being on the session and did not accept the fact that she must communicate with
all the session members, she should not have accepted that position. But
again here is the selective participation in important church business. I
think she should submit her resignation. This is just another instance of
the closed mindedness and exclusionary attitude of your family.
Why was she trying to shove them into John's hands instead of Kris' when Kris is
the Session member.
> What I saw was her trying to give them to Kris and John grabbing them and
throwing them into her face.
Example #2 was the situation in the parlor where you claim your Mom was
called a "bitch" in front of Leona Nickerson..........this to was only
one side of the story and this is what really happened........after
a confrontation between your Mom and Patty and my Mom concerning the painting of
the Parlor in which your Mom started...
....Mrs. Nickerson was called in the Parlor by Joyce at this point Irma Jenke
was leaving the room and Patty was in front of the door
> Why was Patty blocking the door?
and Irma put her hands on Patty and began to swing her arms around and hit my
Mom (Alice) in the face with her fist hard enough to knock her glass completely
off her face and in the process left claw mark scratches on Patty's arm.
At this time Hilary, Patty's daughter entered the room and Patty showed her arm
to her daughter to which Irma replied that she should have knocked her F#@!%$
head off and at this point Hilary did call Irma a bitch but not your mother.
So you tell me Mr. Worldpeace who assaulted who...
> Sounds like Patty created the problem blocking Irma from leaving. But
I think that you do not understand what is going on here. There is tension
in the church and no one except me knows that conversation is the way to solve
this. However, your family and your faction refuse to talk and I believe
that is because you people have taken money from the church. Why else
would there be a refusal to discuss this matter for over a year. Why else
would you people block any attempt to look at the church records?
....not once did my Mom ever make a big deal and spread this whole story around
the church nor did Patty or Hilary. You are the only one spreading this
story around and at that the story isn't even being
> The point is that there should not be this kind of tension in the first
place. Where is Delgatto. Why is he not trying to solve this
problem. What is it about Patty that influences your family? Even
the Administrative Commission has branded Patty a trouble maker. No one
denies that the problems at the church did not intensify until the Ellis's
showed up three years ago.
I just could not sit back any longer and watch you time and time again spread
rumors about my family and the Ellis family.
> I have been willing to publish your words. If you sat back, that was
your choice. If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the
The Ellis' have become very dear friends of the my whole family and you
could never convince me that one thing you have ever said about them or my own
family is true.
> We'll see when the lawsuit continues in a few weeks. I will acknowlege that
none of the important documents regarding the IHP have your family's name on
them and that is why none of you have been added to the lawsuit.
The Ellis' have done a great deal for our church no matter what you say.
> I want you to tell me what all these great things are? All they have
done is create all kinds of tension.
...... I, my family, the Ellis' and God know the truth in what we have done to
better this church.
> So why don't you tell us what all those things are. We are all very
interested. Tell me what Patty has done in three years that over rides the
things my mother has done in 62 years such that she has been removed as trustee
and now the process has started to remove her from the session.
Nothing you say can make me feel bad about all the GOOD we have done.
> And what is that good? Refusing to participate in the healing of the
church by attending several informal congregational meetings is not a good
Just as you feel all you are doing is from the heart and for the best interest
of the church we too feel the same way.
> The only difference is that I have tried to communicate with everyone and
you people have refused to partipate in that conversation. That is the
biggest difference. And that is the source of all the tension.
Mr. Worldpeace I know that realistically I can not put an end to this horrible
> That is where you are absolutely wrong. If you are not a part of the
solution, you are part of the problem. If you refuse to enter into a
healing conversation, then you are participating in keeping the tensions high at
I know that I can not make you have a different outlook on my family, the Ellis'
or any of the other you ridicule,
> I am an attorney. I listen to people every day. I make a living
getting at the truth. You cannot deny that I have tried to get a
conversation going every since I came back to the church last April. I even
started this web page to help that conversation. I filed a lawsuit to
start that conversation. Your family and your group have resisted at every
turn to participate in that conversation. That is undeniable. And
there is no way to get to the truth if you do not speak up.
I know that in the end the truth will come out what ever it maybe
> Not if you know something and refuse to reveal it.
but I do know that I am a woman who loves her family dearly and who does not
appreciate having them bashed all over the internet for all the world to
> I am going to report whatever I see and hear. If that gets
people talking then great.
I am asking you although I am sure you will not but can you please
stop putting such lies and rumors about all of us on your website?
> Do you think all this comes from me. I have over forty people
communicating with me. You only communicate with your group. As a
result you are out of touch with reality. All you people do is reinforce
your own misconceptions because you refuse to talk or listen to anyone who is
not a part of your group. You are a self contained exclusive little club
within the membership. You are so closed that you and your group have
closed the membership to the church just to keep me out.
> Tell me if this is not true? You tell me how your family is so open
and loving and yet you people have closed the church. You have locked out
the senior members. Your mother refuses to open the church for the choir.
Is that a lie or not? You have not mentioned that. Just like Kris refusing
to take the documents from Irma, your mother wants the title but not the
responsibility. This is very very sad. She needs to resign all her
duties and let someone who will actually do the work take her place.
> Further, you people are creating a lot of anomosity by shutting out the
members who are with me. We have never had a closed or secret meeting.
We have never refused to include your family in anything. But you cannot
say that about your family. You people seem to think you own the church.
You people have determined that the church is a social club and that you and not
Jesus should decide who should be a member and who should not.
>Tell me why you do not support me becoming a member. What are you
afraid of. Is this what you know about Jesus, that he rejected the poor,
tax collectors, prostitutes, lawyers, and so on. No you people by closing
the membership have set yourself above Jesus and have high jacked his church for
I am signing this letter because I am not scared nor am I a coward.
> Well you are the first of your group to do so. Congratulations.
You have nothing to fear from me if you have not stolen anything from the
Despite what you think Mr. Worldpeace we are not all running scared from
you....we have nothing to hide and certainly nothing to be ashamed of.
< Well when your family supports the closing of the church records and locks
the church doors and runs off the church secretaries who have been there for a
long time and agree to a budget that spends $10,000 more per month than is
coming it, there is a lot to be ashamed of and there is certainly something
> I have said it over and over for a year, Show us the records, and if what
you people say is true, that no money has been stolen, then the lawsuit will
disappear. But everyone in your group has done everything possible to keep
those records from me. That means to any person looking at this, that
there is undoubtedly something to hide.
Amy K. Grable
Height Presbyterian Church Member
Women's Breakfast, Chair
Fall Festival, Chair
Building & Grounds Committee
Church Growth & Life Committee
Congregational Life Committee
> I am curious as to why you are on so many committees and so many of the
senior members and people that are not with your faction are not on these
committees. I am wondering why your meetings are not posted on the HPC web
site so those who want to participate can. All the meetings seem to be
held in secret or seem to be held without the general knowledge of the
congregation. Why is that?
P.S. I know that you are going to tear this letter to shreds when you post it on
> I am a lawyer. Conflict is resolved by conversation. Yes I am responding in
order to get to the truth or to come to some kind of understanding about as many
of these divisive matters as possible.
> Tell me, has anyone tried as hard as me to get a conversation going.
I have had informal congregational meetings even when Delgatto tried to stop
them, I have sent letters to everyone and your family told me to take their
names off my mailing list. I have started a web page. I filed
a lawsuit. All this in order to ease the tension at the church. And
all this has been fought by you and your family and your faction. Why is
but I am letting you know that I will not be reading nor responding to your
response because I refuse to get strung up in your web.
> And that Amy is why you are part of the problem and not part of the
solution at Heights P C. You do not care enough about the church to do the
things that will really heal the whole congregation. All you want to do is
to stay allied with your group and fight. You have no desire to solve this
mess. All you want to do is fight, fight and fight. And that is
really sad. And that makes a great deal of what you have said
> There is an old saying, "What you are (and do) speaks louder than what
you say" You talk a lot of about your family but you have not made a
commitment to actually participate in an open conversation that will solve this
mess or at least begin to solve it. And that is sad. And it is
hypocritical of you to try to convince anyone that you care enough to lay aside
your prejudices and your hatred of the senior members of the congregation to
really try to do something that will bring peace to HPC.
> Tell me if disengaging from the IHP would bring peace, would you vote to
disengage? Is the IHP worth the dissention that it has caused. And
do not kid yourself, I am not alone in this. There were over thirty
accusations filed against Delgatto. I am not alone and you people are
delusional if you think that.
> So what is it, Amy. What are you going to do now? Ignore things
or actually do something to help - reaching out to everyone you have determined
is your enemy in the church.
In the end,
How can we manifest peace on
earth if we do not include everyone (all races, all nations, all religions, both
sexes) in our vision of Peace?
To the WorldPeace Peace Page