Feedback regarding concerned and response
Date: 8/15/2003 1:15:54 PM Central America Standard Tim
Sent from the Internet (Details)
I am at a complete loss for words. I just do not know what to think about this situation and I certainly do not see an end in the near future.
> This matter will come to a head next month. At that time we will have a ruling from the court regarding how we will proceed in this matter. In addition, my 10,000 emails to the entire Presbyterian Church, my postings to the internet and my entry into the Mayor's race next week is all going to put the spotlight on this matter. The damn will break sooner than you think.
Please hear me and really listen to what I am saying in this letter. Also please find it in yourself to post this on your website so that everyone can see how some of the other members of this church feel.
> I post everything that I receive. I always have. The problem
is that I get so much junk mail that if your subject line looks like junk mail
it gets deleted. I tell people to put WorldPeace in the subject line
and that will assure them that I do not delete something important.
I have had a presence on the internet for almost ten years and I get a lot of
John, I have to admit that I was one of your biggest supporters from the very beginning but, John I can not find it in myself to support a man such as you. I almost feel ashamed at this point to have at one time been such a John Worldpeace fan.
> And there are others who started out hating me and have come to see things differently. There are people who thought that Patty Ellis could not be stopped. There are people who from past experience have seen Presbytery destroy their churches and who thought they could not be stopped. They have seen that justice is possible.
I believed when this all began that you were a good Christian man; a man that had the best interest of the church at heart, I think you have proved me wrong in your recent correspondence with these other members of our church on your website. You John have crossed the line or so I think. A good Christian man would never speak such harsh and hate filled words.
> I think this is interesting. I will go ahead and post 14 hate filled letters directed at my mother last year. These letters were read to the session while she was forced to listen. Not a single person came to her defense. I will try to have them posted later today. I meet people at whatever level they want to engage. I would just remind you of the action of Jesus constantly attacking the Jewish bureaucracy, turning over the tables of the money changers, whipping them, and stating that he did not come to bring peace but a sword and to divide families against each other. The truth is often paradoxical. This is a harsh world we live in. Abe Lincoln, Jesus, Gandhi, Martin Luther King, Rabin, and others of their peers were systematically killed for advocating peace. I am an advocate for peace but I am not a pacifist. I will fight fire with fire.
You a man that speaks of representing peace and harmony has displayed such hate and animosity. For you to personally attack these people is just unbelievable.
> Well, first of all there is a little war going on at HPC if you have not noticed. And you must share the responsibility for the deterioration of the church over the time you have been there. These events at the church are just like the events that go on all over the world. The greatest threat to peace and justice is good men and women who do nothing.
You show these people such lack of respect!
> I have no respect for them. That is correct. They have lied, stolen, manipulated, closed the church, and viciously turned on the seniors of the congregation. Joe Delgatto is a proven liar of the first magnitude. It should insult you that he has the guts to even preach his 8 minute sermons each Sunday.
John do not misunderstand me I am not by any means condoning some of the things that these two members have said but, as you know two wrongs do not make a right.
> In this world you stand up and speak up, or you allow others to
control your life. In the extreme, the German people allowed millions of
people to be murdered while remaining polite and cordial to each other.
What did you do when you saw the injustice toward the Blacks all your
life. Stand up or turn your head? Don't wobble and do not sit in the
darkness of secrecy commenting on something that you are not willing to
I would like however to address a couple of things:
First, I would like to say that I personally wrote one of the beautiful letters that the "ally" speaks of in her/his e-mail to you. I think the work is absolutely breath taking. To see what a little elbow grease and determination can do. I commend all those that put in those long hours at the church making sure that is was beautiful for the 100th Celebration.
> The problem is that all that was done in secret. There was no discussion about an overall beautification of the church. There was no discussion about where the money was coming from. There was no discussion about what to do with all the memorials. None of this. Something that should have involved the entire congregation came down by fiat from the Ellis's, the Grables, Barbara Puckett and a few others. In fact, when a handful of us went to check on the progress at the Fellowship Hall, the locks were changed. Now you tell me what is going on.
> There is no doubt that some areas look better. There is no doubt there was a need to do something. But the way it has been handled is autocratic and has alienated a lot of people in the process. That is the point.
> The removal of the corner stone is a prime example. Do you know
how many masons are in the church. A whole lot. It was a slap in
their face for the cornerstone to be dealt with as it was. Like one mason
told me: "They cannot help it that they are ignorant."
You speak of what horrible work John Blanco has done on our church and I personally think the church should have a day of appreciation for all those including Mr. Blanco on all their hard work here at the church. I know that some of his work was tampered with and caused it to be harmful to others.
> No one hung those lights but John Blanco. No one built that closet but John Blanco. If the doors came off it was because of his ineptness. No one messed with those doors. I know of no one in the church who would deliberately set up a dangerous trap. That was just the cover story to take the blame off of John Blanco. Call James Hodges and ask him about John Blanco's work. Call him and ask him how much work was given to John Blanco because he needed the money. Ask him about the quality of his work. And again, no one was asked about building the closets. No one was asked if they had any other ideas. It was a major remodeling of the Fellowship Hall without input from the congregation who must live with it. I think the closets look like indoor lean-tos.
For this there should be some individuals in our congregation that should be ashamed of themselves. John, the mischievous acts that are going on are only causing the church more and more money so for our church's deficit to be solely blamed on as you called them "Patty followers" is not fair.
> We are talking about nickels and dimes in this last remodeling fiasco. A $10,000 monthly deficit that has been going on for years is something else altogether.
The ones shoving toothpicks in the locks, the individuals bending the tracks on the closet doors and the people unscrewing light bulbs or turning dimmers off to make Mr. Blanco's work look bad you too should be blamed for spending unnecessary monies. My hat is off to these hard working individuals that did the remodeling because they devoted their time where as there are so many of us (myself included) that did not help out but are quick to criticize.
> People were discouraged from helping. They were not allowed any
input. James Redd used to come by the church everyday and do small
things. He used to keep the AC working and the church cool on
Sunday. But he was run off. My mother and Irma have put endless
hours in on the church yard as did Leon, but they were all told to stay away and
leave things alone. People who have come and looked after the church for
decades are now locked out. Wake up and smell the coffee. The church
is supposed to be a community. It has been turned into a dictatorship by a
I do not know exactly what happened between you and Benny Grable since I was not present but, I do find it very difficult to believe that such a gentleman as Benny would try to pick a fight with anyone. He is such a loving family man who has raised a beautiful family in this church and I just can not imagine him doing something of this nature. I can see you John being able to push someone to their limits however I can never see Benny striking another human being.
> After I filed suit in April of last year, I attended church. After
church, Terry Myer came over to where I was sitting and tried to start a fight
right there in the sanctuary. I told him that if he wanted to fight, we
needed to go outside. About that time Benny, Benny Jr, Amy, Anita, some of
their kids, Kris and John Blanco came over and blocked me in the pews and made
all kinds of vicious remarks. John Blanco kept kissing his lips and trying
to bate a fight. Too bad you were not there. But there were a lot
who were and they will tell you what happened. This is one of the reasons
I carry a tape recorder now and LeAnne videos everything. And since we
have done that, none of these low rent brawlers have tried to start
anything. John Blanco nearly hit Irma in the eye with papers she was
trying to give Kris. I am surprised he did not actually hit her with his
Secondly John, you have mentioned on several occasions this malicious rumor about Dr. Joe and Patty Ellis having an affair. John how can you say such a thing?
> I never said that. I am just looking for a reason why Joe has turned the church over to Patty. In one session meeting last year she ranted and raved for almost 40 minutes. Every time you ask him about something, he says he has to ask Patty. Why does he call her 8 to 10 times a day. The reality here is that you do not have the input coming to you that I have. When this matter goes to court, you are going to be shocked at what is going to come out. From the information that I have received, I believe Delgatto is a sexual pervert. He is not a molester, but he is a pervert. He has been told by more than one member in the past to keep his hands off their wives.
You are an attorney and know that without proof of anything you have no case. John I will be the first to say that I too was never a big supporter of Patty but no woman deserves to have such rumors spread around about her. I do have to admit that I have come to realize that Patty and her family have their hearts in the right places. I truly believe that the Ellis family is doing what they can to help this church grow. Patty has a strong personality yes I agree with that but maybe just maybe that is what this church needs at this time.
> You judge a tree by its fruit. Patty yelling in the sanctuary that
members should be thrown out. Patty destroying the memorials. Patty
closing the church membership. Patty locking out long time members.
What you have to admit is that the tension in the church has increased
significantly since Patty Ellis arrived. That is the reality of it
I would just like to say John that by you saying all these vicious thing about all these people and families that the majority of us have grown to love you are alienating you, your mother Joyce and all that support you. You are proving yourself to be a very mean and vindictive man. If you continue to bash the members of this church that are only doing positive things you will continue to loose the respect of many of us longtime members and ex-supporters.
> It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbled, or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena; whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs and comes short again and again; who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, and spends himself in a worth cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who know neither victory nor defeat. - Teddy Rooosevelt.
> Get off the bench and get involved, or sit in the stands. This is
a fight I have taken on. It is one that I will win. In the end there will
be peace. What I am doing is cleaning up a mess that people like you
allowed to grow into a divisive monster. The John Fakes money should have
given new life to the church and assured it life for decades to come. Yet
because of apathy, because of insane spending, the church will be bankruptcy in
about two years. Rest assured I am going to make sure that does not
happen. Rest assured that democracy and community will be restored to
Heights Presbyterian Church. I have a commitment to John Fakes and my
family and I will honor that commitment.
Please think about what I have said. I truly pray that a healing process begin and for our church to flourish once again.
> There will be no healing until the church is opened, until there are
open congregation meetings, until people who have been members for decades are
allowed to take care of the church, until Delgatto is gone, until the Book of
Order is followed, and until Presbytery is out of our business.
A Sadden Heart
> As God is my witness,
How can we manifest peace on earth if we do not include everyone (all races, all nations, all religions, both sexes) in our vision of Peace?
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